Transcription - 23.11.2020

Schumann Forum concert talk with Ottavia Maria Maceratini, conducted by Ulrich Bumann

Ulrich Bumann
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, also a warm welcome from both of us to this very special evening, special in its atmosphere and the circumstances that have made it become what it will be. Yes, Ottavia Maria Maceratini already shows her origin in her name because she comes from the province of Macerata, more precisely from Recanati, some 10 kilometres from the Adriatic coast, with Ancona a bit more to the south, is that correct? [Ms Maceratini nodding in agreement] Right, and Recanati, along with Ms Maceratini, has produced another very famous artist, and opera lovers will certainly know him, namely Beniamino Gigli, one of the greatest tenors of the 20th century and legitimate successors to Caruso. We do not want to talk about singing, well, perhaps a bit, but Ottavia Maria, you are someone who also likes being active on social media, who is highly visible on Facebook, and you occasionally let us share your thoughts, reflections and feelings. I recently noticed two images, one with you wearing a T-shirt with the imprint “Italia”, and the other one was a graphic representation where Italy or the outline of Italy, so to speak, was carried or protected by a doctor. This leads us directly to the pandemic and the real issue of this crisis, which lasted much longer in Italy and also shaped the image of the corona epidemic in Germany; you will all recall the images from Bergamo, the overcrowded hospitals and the dead being taken away. So, Italy was probably the country which quasi predetermined the horrors of this pandemic for Germany. How did you experience this over such a long period as an artist?

Ottavia Maria Maceratini
This, of course, is a very unusual situation for all of us, regardless of where and what we experienced, I think this is because nowadays we are no longer used to certain freedoms all of a sudden no longer being natural. Then, of course, it is always traumatic when you suddenly have to realise that there is actually nothing that would be natural. People talk a lot about the pandemic and I am also not an expert and cannot really judge how bad the situation was […], but I can still talk about the experience we had, especially in the first weeks, because there are many people in my family, such as my aunt, my mum and my cousin, who work either in pharmacies or in hospitals and who were, of course, pretty much overstrained right from the beginning, for the very reason that there were not enough places in the hospitals, which is why they had to work in very stressful circumstances and I obviously experienced through my family that there was a lot of uncertainty and insecurity […]. Anyway, I always thought there was nothing that happens to us but that there was always something which happens for us, and so I took this opportunity to apply certain principles, certain things in which I believe. This is why I made really good use of my time and adjusted myself, so that when I lacked external freedom, there was still an inner freedom left, that is, the freedom to live for my own good. And I also did a lot of “shadow work”, so to speak, in the sense of Carl Gustav Jung’s theory, who was one of the first to speak about shadows. It is quite clear that if something like this happens, the first things that come to the surface are the negative feelings, the so-called negative feelings and emotions, and if you really deal with them, they can be transformed in a wonderful manner.

Ulrich Bumann
But is also true that this pandemic has certainly raised existential questions for artists, for instance, when performances were cancelled from one day to the next …

Ottavia Maria Maceratini
Right.

Ulrich Bumann
… and there were no other possibilities. Was there actually some state support for artists in Italy?

Ottavia Maria Maceratini
No, there was no state support.

Ulrich Bumann
Nil?!

Ottavia Maria Maceratini
NIL. Or virtually nil, there was little and this little was almost impossible to really receive. Of course, what led to major debates was also a bit due to the fact that, even months later, when many professions were mentioned [which were impossible to pursue] and athletes were spoken to and, for instance, also the people who massage the athletes and many others, there was not a single word said about the artists, and this then led to major debates because it meant somehow that this category did not really exist or … 

Ulrich Bumann
Was not systematically relevant, as we would say.

Ottavia Maria Maceratini
… would be of any value. Right. As far as I am concerned, well, there were quite a few performances that were cancelled! In particular, there was as stage play written by me to which I was very much looking forward to. I had an opportunity to present this in a theatre on 7th March but two days prior to that everything was simply cancelled. Still, I must say that I managed to handle this situation quite well because I consider art to be …  Of course, art is also a profession but I do not pursue it primarily for the sake of money because otherwise I would not live in the way I do, on the contrary, I do it out of dedication and I am convinced that art can simply be a remedy, a healing power for society and also for the individual: This is why I just accepted [the situation]. As an artist, anyway, you are used to living with uncertainty. For instance, when you play some piece, it is different each time, in each concert, so it is simply … it is an exercise of capitulation, I would say, or of surrendering, as it is called in English. Acceptance which, of course, is not resignation! There is a big difference between these two concepts but you have to accept life as it comes.

Ulrich Bumann
During that period, many artists actually looked for digital possibilities or found digital replacements for their concerts, the most famous of whom in Germany was probably Igor Levit who played all 32 Beethoven Sonatas to an imaginary audience, with a different sonata every evening. For you, is this good enough as a replacement for concerts at all or does an artist’s performance not rather need that special atmosphere with an audience or that feeling for the audience or that mutual giving and taking or whatever you will call it?

Ottavia Maria Maceratini
Right, well, I think the question almost answers itself. It is quite clear that whenever there any options available, it is good to somehow make use of them, especially in times of need. However, there are many reasons why we go to concerts. For me, too, when I go to a concert myself, it is some kind of pilgrimage, that is, getting into your car or going on foot and moving to another place, investing all that time, well, that is a process. A process which does not only take place on stage but on various levels and, of course, there are things which are quite simply only communicated by someone’s presence and cannot … - or at least it is very difficult – be really conveyed by a screen.

Ulrich Bumann
You mentioned this earlier and you also said or wrote about this in a contribution, I think it was about the healing power of music.

Ottavia Maria Maceratini
Yes, correct.

Ulrich Bumann
Perhaps it seems a bit simplistic to view music and its healing power as a narcotic, an intoxicant or just relaxation, but is there actually more to it than that?

Ottavia Maria Maceratini
Well, of course, there is much more to it than that. It depends, ultimately it all depends on the attention with which you are listening to something, and the kind of consciousness you employ when dealing with music. I will give you some small examples … music works perfectly in supermarkets or works perfectly in fitness rooms where it has a doping effect and is something you hear in the background, and this can lead to a certain satisfaction. This is also some kind of use which you can make of music. And in that sense it is certainly not healing in the way I meant it. But it is healing when music can suddenly be used as a mirror, as a mirror of your own inner processes, as a mirror which helps me to recognise what is happening inside me. Of course, our inner worlds are not necessarily simple, that is, they are actually invisible, but they are still very concrete. The most important decisions in our life are based on invisible elements anyway, on feelings or thoughts. So, these are invisible but still incredibly important and sometimes music can help us to attain more awareness of these things, for instance, through a better vocabulary, which I find very important. This means even talking about music is a very important action because, for instance, you often notice in young people today that they do not know how to approach their own feelings because they are lacking the words. They do not know how to express what they feel. So, if you deal with music on that level and perceive it as a means to grow and also emotionally mature, I think there is a great potential in music and many things become possible.

Ulrich Bumann
I am quoting you again. If ever there is an end to this corona period, you said somehow that the worst would be if nothing had changed after that.

Ottavia Maria Maceratini
Right. Well, it is a bit like at weddings when people say they hope the newlyweds will be exactly the same as they are today some ten years later. Well, this is terrible … You should wish that people mature, that people become even happier, that they become more fulfilled and inwardly more rich, and this is also what I wish for myself in this situation! As I said earlier, I think there is an incredibly great potential in that and now it will depend on us how to make use of that and how to become,
hopefully, a better society.

Ulrich Bumann
So, are you optimistic about that?

Ottavia Maria Maceratini
No way.

Ulrich Bumann
Right, so let us leave it like that.

Ottavia Maria Maceratini
No, everything is, of course, possible but I also see some trends which, unfortunately, I do not like at all, but nothing is to be set in stone which is why I think all the more that artists have an important role to play right now.

Ulrich Bumann
Now you are in Bonn again, the town of music, associated with Schumann and Beethoven. Is there anything special about performing in such a town or playing the compositions of musicians from that town?

Ottavia Maria Maceratini
Oh yes, I really love it. Like today, and there I would like to thank Ingrid again from the bottom of my heart, because every time I have the opportunity to visit Schumann’s place here in Endenich, I feel greatly honoured. It also gives me a kind of knowledge that is not necessarily conveyed by words, it is conveyed by a presence, by energy fields, and especially in these rooms where Schumann spent the last days of his life, I can sense a particular presence which is so full of tenderness and intimacy. For me, this is a unique teaching of love. And I think today we can learn a lot […] from that time, from the romantic period. It was only yesterday that we talked about how important the age of romanticism was and how romanticism is often misunderstood these days. There is only a short distance between head and heart but it is still a long way to go. It is sometimes really difficult to “let yourself drop into your heart” but I think we have a great opportunity for this with that corona time because… Also, what I just mentioned in Bayreuth was that there is a word, a concept which has been very fashionable for some decades now, which is the concept of “cool” and “coolness”. You call “cool” something that is desirable. “Uncool” has many meanings. But “cool” mostly means aloofness, callousness, something really important […] in a meritocracy. And it is indeed important because it is a protective mechanism which […] can perhaps be useful for a short while but in the long run it only causes suffering and this is why I hope another concept will become fashionable, namely “longing” instead of coolness and cool, the concept as we know it from the romantic period, which is longing […] in the sense of feeling very deeply, of a recovery of one’s own heart, because longing, through painful at times, […] always takes us in a very important direction. A direction which we might perhaps have lost sight of for the time being but, as the Sufi mystic and poet Rumi said, pains are messages and we should listen to them!  So, longing may sometimes be painful but it is very important to really listen to it because you will gain a lot of valuable things from it.

Ulrich Bumann
And what you will play this evening will then preferably be romantic music …

Ottavia Maria Maceratini
Exactly.

Ulrich Bumann
So even Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata …

Ottavia Maria Maceratini
Absolutely.

Ulrich Bumann
And, if I got this right, it will all circle a bit around the concept of fantasia?

Ottavia Maria Maceratini
That is correct!

Ulrich Bumann
Is that really so?

Ottavia Maria Maceratini
Absolutely. [The first and last piece already bear this concept in their name], that is, Sonata quasi una fantasia by Beethoven and the last piece by Liszt, Fantasia quasi sonata, a piece inspired by Dante’s Divine Comedy, where you go through different states. This is very clearly represented by Liszt, going from Hell to Heaven, the whole spectrum is represented, and we are invited to experience everything.

Ulrich Bumann
OK. Perhaps for the two of us. Well, so there is the Sonata created after Dante’s [famous work], his Dante Fantasia. This is about Hell, in particular. It starts with the way into Hell with the famous “Abandon all hope, you who enter here”, then you can really […] hear the wailing laments of the condemned, [after that] the music calms down a bit, takes up themes of love and at the end it even has something almost transfiguring, only a little, and then there are the closing lines from Dante’s Hell – but I have to read them out, I do not  know them by heart – which are: “Till on our view the beautiful lights of heaven dawned through a circular opening in the cave: thus issuing we again beheld the stars.” There is a lot of optimism ultimately involved in that. On this note, we could perhaps close our talk with a reasonably optimistic outlook …

Ottavia Maria Maceratini
Oh yes, by all means. [...] With an invitation, as I mentioned, to consider even our own vulnerability as a gift, and, to quote again Rumi because I like it so much: he said that a wound is a place through which light can finally enter.

Ulrich Bumann
Many thanks for this talk.

Ottavia Maria Maceratini
Thank you very much indeed.

=== APPLAUSE ===